Five Black Fridays in One Week at Montana Knife Company

[00:00:00] Taylor: Welcome back to another episode of the Ecommerce Playbook podcast live from Commerce Roundtable. That's not AI. This is the real San Diego skyline here behind us. And I'm joined by Brandon Harhou, uh, the co-founder and CMO of the Montana Knife Company. Bro, low-key, one of the coolest brands in the space that you guys are pretty off the radar, though.

[00:00:21] Like, are you on the socials? Do you get out there and, uh, build the personal brand at all or?

[00:00:26] Brandon: No, that's, that's the thing is like I'm not on X.

[00:00:28] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:00:28] Brandon: I'm not on LinkedIn. You know, like my background is in, like I have a fine arts degree. Okay. So, uh, you know, and that was in graphic design and photography, so a little bit bigger on Instagram- Yeah, yeah

[00:00:38] but not like, not from the brand building, like marketing side thing. Yeah. Mostly just from kinda like the art side. But no, pretty low-key.

[00:00:45] Taylor: We were sitting last night at dinner, and it was you guys. We had the ZipString guys. You've seen those things, the toy. A guy doing like a kimchi cracker. Like, it's just, what I love about this industry is there's just so many random niches of really cool businesses and people doing awesome stuff that you can always discover, and you guys are certainly one of them.

[00:01:03] So my partner, so Corey, was employee one at CTC, has been with me since day one. Um, and he is the outdoorsman and is a huge fan of you

[00:01:11] Brandon: guys. Yeah.

[00:01:12] Taylor: So he knows you guys well, and I'm learning and getting caught up. But why don't you tell us a little bit about Montana Knife Company?

[00:01:16] Brandon: Yeah. So Montana Knife Company's wild.

[00:01:19] Um, you know, it's- You know, it started during peak COVID. Mm. Like I'm talking, I met Josh, my business partner, he's the master bladesmith. He's the guy who understands how to make the perfect knife. You know, he's been making knives for 30 years.

[00:01:31] Taylor: Cool.

[00:01:32] Brandon: So he started making knives at age 11.

[00:01:33] Taylor: No way.

[00:01:34] Brandon: And then he became the youngest master bladesmith ever at- Wait,

[00:01:36] Taylor: that's like a certification or like what does it mean to be a master bladesmith?

[00:01:39] Brandon: Yeah, so master bladesmith, so there's only like 130 of these guys in the world. What? Yes, in the entire world. And it's, it i- and it's, so you have to become a journeyman first.

[00:01:48] Taylor: Okay.

[00:01:49] Brandon: So you have to build a set of knives, and then you have to fly to Atlanta. Remember, this is the '90s. He, he started at 11. I think he became a journeyman at like 15 or 16.

[00:01:58] You have to fly to Atlanta. You have to present your knives to a panel of master bladesmiths. What? And they rip you apart. Wow. Like he's 16. He's like, "It was like one of the hardest things I've ever done."

[00:02:06] Taylor: Wow.

[00:02:07] Brandon: He passes his journeyman, and then at, then he goes home for three years, builds his next set- What?

[00:02:13] for master bladesmith, and becomes the youngest master bladesmith ever at the age of 19. I

[00:02:16] Taylor: have never heard of this.

[00:02:17] Brandon: No, it, it's, it's wild. And like all these knives, you know, like are, you know, it, it's something that you have to like... And they're very specific on what you have to do, and there's different styles, and it, like you just can't freestyle.

[00:02:29] Crazy. It's like very specific. So he did that, and then he became one of the top knife makers in the world. Uh, he was making $30,000 swords for sheikhs.

[00:02:38] Taylor: Jeez.

[00:02:38] Brandon: And they were flying him over to London to go look at the different exhibits of historic knives, and then they were bringing him over like to, you know, the Middle East and stuff like that.

[00:02:46] And then obviously then, you know, where this is all kind of getting to is then like, you know, he's become this master bladesmith. He knows how to make the best knives in the world, and then 2008 happens. And, you know, he was a full-time knife maker at the time, and in 2008, everyone's knife budget kind of dried up- Mm

[00:03:01] for $30,000 swords- Yeah, yeah. ... and stuff like that. So he's like, he's like, "Oh shit, I have to go get a real job."

[00:03:06] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:03:06] Brandon: So then for 10 years he was a lineman So blue collar lineman Yeah ... great paying job, but he's, but he always in the back of his head was like, "I'm a knife maker." Mm. "I've always wanted to start this company," and he actually registered Montana Knife Company 20 years ago.

[00:03:19] His mom helped him trademark the name. So he's just been sitting on it and just stewing over this company. Um, so then in 2020 Josh and I met, and he was like, you know, he started getting that fire, and he's like, "I need to find the marketer or the guy that can help me set up the website and do the photography and handle all this stuff."

[00:03:33] Yeah. And just my background is like, I've always been like a one-man marketing team for companies.

[00:03:37] Taylor: Okay.

[00:03:38] Brandon: So it was, like, real easy for me to turnkey a company, like, pretty much like overnight- Done, yeah ... with you. Let's just turn this on and see what happens, and it just, it's turned into what it is today.

[00:03:46] Taylor: Amazing. So how did you guys meet? Like, what was your relational foundation?

[00:03:49] Brandon: Yeah. So we actually met through, uh, Burt Sorin at Sorinex- Okay ... which is a, a, you know, lifting equipment company. They do all the stuff like UFC and Yankees- Cool ... and stuff like that. Their creative, Josh was talking to their creative team at an expo, and their, their creative team knew of me up in Montana, and he's like, "Hey, you should, you guys should meet."

[00:04:07] DM'd.

[00:04:08] Taylor: Yep.

[00:04:08] Brandon: And then it literally was just history from there.

[00:04:10] Taylor: Crazy. So tell us what is MKC today then? Yeah. What is the mix of the brand, and what are you guys selling? What is the, what is the approach and strategy that you guys are after today?

[00:04:17] Brandon: Yeah. So Montana Knife Company is, we're 100% American-made knives.

[00:04:22] Um, we're one of the only, you know, companies that do it, do it 100% American made, and we're also gonna be one of the only companies that we do everything under one roof too. So, you know, five years ago or six years ago, you know, it was two guys in a garage, and then we expanded to 12 people in a 10,000 square foot facility, and now we're in a 50,000 square foot facility with 160 employees.

[00:04:43] Taylor: Crazy. All in Montana?

[00:04:44] Brandon: All in Montana. Uh, and we have a couple remote guys on the marketing side-

[00:04:48] Taylor: Sure ...

[00:04:49] Brandon: you know, engineering side, but almost all in Montana.

[00:04:52] Taylor: Amazing. And you guys, we were talking last night, you've gone from fixed blade as the primary s- place that you started in- Yeah ... to now, uh, foldables. Is that the category we call it?

[00:05:02] Yes. Yep. I'm picking up the language here. Yep. And then culinary now too.

[00:05:05] Brandon: Right. Yes.

[00:05:06] Taylor: And we were talking a little bit about how the, the market for knives generally, like I... That was news to me. Like how big is this market? Like are pe- like where, and what are the different industries that you guys serve with knives?

[00:05:18] Brandon: Right. So that's the, so that's the thing I w- I've, I love being proud of, of being the most wrong I've ever been in my

[00:05:23] Taylor: career.

[00:05:24] Brandon: Mm. So when, when Josh and I like kinda wrote out the original business plan and tried to figure this thing out, it was like, you know, I, you know, we really look up to Yeti.

[00:05:32] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:05:32] Brandon: And we're like, "Okay, we'll be like the Yeti of the knife world.

[00:05:34] Like, we're gonna create the one knife that we can hand to any hunter going on any hunt anywhere in the world, and that's all they need." What I did not anticipate is the collectability of our brand and like how many... Uh, our return customer rate. So what's wild is for the first five years, one of my KPIs was to actually lower our return customer rate- That's

[00:05:53] Taylor: crazy

[00:05:53] Brandon: and to get new people into the funnel because our return customers- So you just moved- ... were buying them so fast ... all the

[00:05:57] Taylor: inventory.

[00:05:58] Brandon: Yeah.

[00:05:58] Taylor: Which is crazy. In a hard goods business, y- like I never would've guessed.

[00:06:01] Brandon: No.

[00:06:01] Taylor: If you told me knives had good LTV, I'd be like, "No, no, you're wrong." Like that's incredible.

[00:06:05] Brandon: Dude, trust me, it is. Like the, I've been in the back end of so many businesses, and I've never seen what, what's going on like here.

[00:06:11] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:06:12] Brandon: It's just a, it, it's, it was... And it's so many things. It's just not Josh and I. It's, it's the team we've built, it's the timing with COVID, the timing with American-made, the timing of...

[00:06:21] And then also too just the timing in the industry. Yeah. The industry we're in is like all of our competitors are 150 years old. They're multiple generations in. Yeah. So I'm not saying that like it's, it's kind of like, you know, we're, we're kind of the young, scrappy... You know, both Josh and I came from very, very, like very basic means of like families and stuff like that.

[00:06:40] So like we have a little bit of a chip on our shoulder where a lot of our competition, you know, they're third, fourth, fifth- Yeah ... you know, trust fund generation. You know, and I kinda see that happening and then, you know, as a marketer it's like- Kinda able to pass it. Yeah ... you know what, what, what, what, what other industries are there like that?

[00:06:53] Taylor: Interesting. Yeah. Where else can we go dominate these people that have moved on?

[00:06:56] Brandon: Yep.

[00:06:56] Taylor: But so like I'm scrolling the website right now. Yep. the culinary section, everything's sold out.

[00:07:02] Brandon: Right.

[00:07:03] Taylor: Like, you guys are just flying through this stuff. Yes. And even in this space too.

[00:07:06] Brandon: Yeah.

[00:07:06] Taylor: It's just insane, dude. Right.

[00:07:08] And these are, they're not cheap.

[00:07:10] Brandon: No, they're not.

[00:07:10] Taylor: We're t- we're talking about $1,300 kitchen knife sets, gone. Right. Just can't keep them in stock.

[00:07:15] Brandon: Gone. So, and, and that's the wild thing is, is, you know, as we started expanding our line, you know, we started with hunting, and then we're just like, "Well, let's just, like, let's do first blood to last bite."

[00:07:25] Mm. So the idea is that we have a hunting knife- Ah, that's clever ... for in the field.

[00:07:27] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:07:28] Brandon: We have a processing knives for the garage. We have your, your chef knives for the kitchen, and we have steak knives for the table. Crazy. So- Yeah, that's cool ... our goal was to, to do that, but what we totally underestimated, um, like the demand for culinary.

[00:07:40] Yeah. And we're on the highest end of, you know, non-custom, you know, produced knives. Yeah. You know, like there's obviously a bunch of Damascus, you know, custom chef knives you can go buy from amazing creators, and you're gonna spend anywhere to $1,000 to $5,000 per knife. Wow. But, like, ours are, you know, ours are just mass-produced, but our culinary is so good.

[00:07:59] Like, that's the thing is, I can hand our culinary knives to, you know, a one-star Michelin chef or two-star Michelin chef, and they're like, "No, I would use this every day." Yeah. Yeah. And it's because the people who designed them. You know, you have a master bladesmith, and then we also went out and reached out and worked with one of the best chef knife designers ever.

[00:08:14] So there's a lot of pedigree- That's super cool ... that goes into our product.

[00:08:17] Taylor: So obviously one of the challenges that's unique in what you face is that you sell a product that can be categorized as a weapon.

[00:08:23] Brandon: Yes.

[00:08:23] Taylor: And creates limitations. So in our world, we talk a lot about Facebook advertising and other things.

[00:08:28] Talk about some of the challenges you guys face, and then how you've gone about building distribution for yourselves- Yeah ... in light of those challenges.

[00:08:34] Brandon: So, so this is the thing that, like, you know, I talk to a lot of brands about, and a lot of brands in our industry reach out to me for, for advice and stuff like that, and it's like- I pretty much look at it as like, like our marketing stack is a, you know, is a, is a, is a golf bag.

[00:08:48] Like pretty much from year one, two, three, and four we weren't able to run meta ads. Mm. So we had to pull our driver out.

[00:08:53] Taylor: Yep.

[00:08:54] Brandon: And then we had to... Like literally. Yeah. And then, like we couldn't run Google, so all right, take our three wood out. And then we couldn't, like-- And then, you know, so i- pretty much like, okay, we can't do performance stuff, so we just had to lean really hard on organic.

[00:09:06] Taylor: Mm.

[00:09:06] Brandon: We had to lean really hard on collaborations. We had to lean really hard on brand building.

[00:09:11] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:09:11] Brandon: And those are the fundamentals for the first, you know, four years of the business that we, we just had to do out of necessity. But now that we're into year five, six, and seven, like it's built such a strong foundation.

[00:09:24] And I was telling this at dinner last night, is like, because we had to go do all the hard things first-

[00:09:29] Taylor: Right,

[00:09:30] Brandon: right ... like I will put our bottom funnel and our retargeting and our retainment against any company anywhere. Anybody, yeah. But that's just pure out of like pure reps. Yeah. Like we just had to do it.

[00:09:39] Taylor: One, one of the things I like to say is brands will evolve the traits that they need to win based on the attributes of their product. Yeah. So if like, if you are a business that has no LTV, you're gonna become world-class at customer acquisition- Right ... because you have to go get it. If you are a subscription brand, you become great at retention tactics.

[00:09:54] And- Yeah ... so for you guys, like having to build that organic foundation is just an evolved skill that you had to have to survive.

[00:10:00] Brandon: Right.

[00:10:00] Taylor: And so you went and you got it, and all of a sudden now that foundation props up so much opportunity. So- What advertising can you do? So you can't be on Meta. Can you run CTV?

[00:10:10] Can you run... Like, where are you guys able to actually leverage on the top of the fu-

[00:10:13] Brandon: Yeah. And, and, like, over the past year, like, we, we've had some of our biggest breakthroughs, and, um, we're, we're able to run meta ads- Okay ... but we're not able to run, like, "Hey, this is our Blackfoot. This is our number one selling knives"- Yeah

[00:10:24] or knife. It has 15,000 five-star reviews.

[00:10:26] Taylor: Yep.

[00:10:27] Brandon: It's like, "No, here's, like, a brand anthem that looks- Right ... like a Yellowstone commercial"-

[00:10:30] Taylor: Right ...

[00:10:30] Brandon: and it goes to a landing page. That can't

[00:10:32] Taylor: have a knife on it.

[00:10:33] Brandon: Yeah. Yes, exactly. Google, um, like, we're finally meeting with Google and getting some things, like, actually in their, you know, compliancies changed- Hmm

[00:10:41] for us to be more of a tool company.

[00:10:43] Taylor: Okay.

[00:10:43] Brandon: And we're seeing some growth there.

[00:10:44] Taylor: Good.

[00:10:45] Brandon: Um, you know, we've, we've done things through Tatari. Hmm. We've just had some really cool wins with them. You know? That's cool. Some of those remnant buys where-

[00:10:50] Taylor: Yeah ...

[00:10:51] Brandon: like, one day we're just sitting there and, like, we had a, you know, an MLB's, like, semifinal, like, playoff commercial hit.

[00:10:57] Yeah. That's cool. And I'm, like, getting blown up by all my buddies, like, that've never even knew, like, knew the company. We were coming.

[00:11:01] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:11:02] Brandon: Um, but that and then, you know, some of the CTV stuff. Like, we're trying everything. If, like, if Snapchat will let us- Literally. Yeah ... we'll go. If Pinterest will let us- Yeah

[00:11:10] like, scale and advertise, we'll work with anyone that wants to work with us.

[00:11:13] Taylor: Yeah. That's cool. So the point of this podcast is primarily- Yeah ... to talk about Q4. When I said we're gonna talk about holiday, you lit up. You're like, "Oh, we have a really unique-" Yeah ... "strategy I wanna talk about." So what is it?

[00:11:23] Yeah. What are you guys doing for Q4 and holiday?

[00:11:24] Brandon: So, so I live for Black Friday. Yeah. And, like, in the past, you know, 10, you know, 15 years or however long I've been doing this is, like, everything's been about Black Friday. Um, and you know, what we've... And so the thing about Montana Knife Company is still, six years in, we've still have never discounted a knife.

[00:11:39] Taylor: Really? Not one time?

[00:11:40] Brandon: Not... Like, we've never publicly discounted one. Wow. We've done some insider stuff- Sure, sure ... and things like that, but we've never ran a sale-

[00:11:47] Taylor: Interesting ...

[00:11:47] Brandon: on the knives. We'll run it on apparel. But so Black Friday is, like, always, like, how can we just create the most excitement? Hmm. And, like, how can I have a reason to text and email my customers multiple times a day- Yeah

[00:11:59] for a week straight-

[00:12:00] Taylor: Yeah ...

[00:12:01] Brandon: without exhausting- With no promotion. Yeah ... Yeah. And w- and, and without a promotion. Yeah. So what we do is we actually, we look at our Black Friday week Um, and I started on the Tuesday before-

[00:12:12] Taylor: Okay ...

[00:12:12] Brandon: and it ends Cyber Monday.

[00:12:13] Taylor: Okay.

[00:12:14] Brandon: And what... And we've kind of... We, we almost did this by accident, but it works so well, is that 'cause inside of Montana Knife Company, we have so many personas.

[00:12:23] Taylor: Okay.

[00:12:24] Brandon: So we have a core pillar that is hunting.

[00:12:26] Taylor: Okay.

[00:12:26] Brandon: We have a core pillar that's culinary. We have a core pillar that's blue collar EDC, and then we have a co- a, a core pillar that's tactical. So what I do is that week, I set up a Black Friday event that is the most exciting event of the year for each one of those personas.

[00:12:44] Hmm. So we technically have five Black Fridays in a row- Interesting ... stacked day to day to day.

[00:12:49] Taylor: And do you have like a CDP that segments customers into those personas? Or how are you actually mapping that communication?

[00:12:55] Brandon: So what's wild is that during this Black Friday event, I don't segment.

[00:12:59] Taylor: Ah. So everybody gets all of them.

[00:13:00] Brandon: So everyone gets it. So, so, like, it's like, you know, it's, it... People who follow our brand are gonna like, they, they kinda know what our Black Friday's gonna be. But- Right ... you know, like our biggest, our three biggest days up until we launched the, the folder was always our culinary drop.

[00:13:12] Taylor: Okay.

[00:13:13] Brandon: So they're always sold out, but then on Black Friday we'll release a coup- you know, a ton of sets.

[00:13:17] Taylor: Mm.

[00:13:18] Brandon: And they sell out. So, so we always do a culinary, and the people who want culinary know that that's gonna happen.

[00:13:23] Taylor: Okay.

[00:13:24] Brandon: And then we're gonna have a, a, you know, a, a pocket knife drop, and then we have a tactical.

[00:13:27] Taylor: So that's, so rather than promotion, what you do is you release net new availability of inventory- Yes

[00:13:32] or SKUs on those days?

[00:13:33] Brandon: Yes. Exactly. Interesting. Yep. Yep.

[00:13:35] Taylor: So that, it, the, you have all this pent-up demand because right now you're out of stock because of- Yes ... all of that. Yeah. So will you actually withho- keep that out of stock intentionally all the way up until that moment? Or like how will you think about balancing now until then- Right

[00:13:49] to maintain and map that demand?

[00:13:51] Brandon: So like that's, like that's the part that I love is everyone's like, "Oh, you're building false scarcity."

[00:13:54] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:13:55] Brandon: I was like, "If you knew-"

[00:13:57] Taylor: Well, if I had-

[00:13:58] Brandon: Like, if you knew how many, like, c- open carts we had for our last folder, folding knife drop- Yeah ... that we could've gave product to.

[00:14:07] Like, oh, like, so like- We,

[00:14:09] Taylor: we gave up a lot of opportunity. Yeah,

[00:14:10] Brandon: yeah. We gave up a lot of... Yeah, so, like, we're still manufacturing in-house. Mm-hmm. So there's like my office and the wall behind me, they're making the knives.

[00:14:16] Taylor: Crazy.

[00:14:17] Brandon: So the, so our stuff isn't even done. Like, we haven't even made the stuff for Black Friday yet.

[00:14:21] It's on the schedule, and we're gonna make as much as we can, but like, it's still, like we're still catching up. And eventually we will. I, like this is, this is the first year we're moving into a big facility.

[00:14:32] Taylor: Yeah.

[00:14:33] Brandon: And we're already starting to see that like, hey, like, that our production team is kicking ass.

[00:14:37] They're crushing. They're finding efficiencies. They're doing all these things on like that side of the business, and then, uh, that's what gets me really excited about 2027- Yeah ... 'cause like the marketing is gonna change a little bit. It's gonna be more of like, "Hey, this is what's in stock. Let's bring new customers into the funnel, sell them what's on the website," instead of trying to get in them into that whole drop cadence that we run.

[00:14:56] Taylor: So let's go back to the Black Friday week. Okay. So it's Tuesday. I

[00:15:00] Taylor 2: Okay, so after that, all of that energy of the week of Black Friday, Cyber Monday, we still have 19 days- Right ... of gifting and Christmas. How do you keep that energy going for your brand? Right. So like that, that to us, like we have to engineer that and keep that energy moving, and like that's like one thing we noticed like the first couple years is like we did this big Black Friday.

[00:15:18] Brandon 2: We sold out of all of our product, and we literally would have... There was, first couple years we'd literally have nothing in stock- Yeah ... going through Christmas, and we got people calling us and all this stuff. We're just like, "We, we just can't make it." So we, now we're like, we're very, very specific about how we plan those remaining weeks.

[00:15:34] So we have our big Black Friday week where there's big five moments, and then like that next Thursday we like purposely plan, like we'll drop a new product or we'll drop a limited edition, something that is like curated for our current customer base that they just can't say no to. Yeah. And like, so we'll do that like for like, sometimes we'll s- be able to squeeze in two to three more Thursdays before that last shipping date.

[00:15:54] Depending on the calendar, yeah. Exactly. And like I like those big, those big months with four Thursdays- Yeah, yeah, exactly ... or five Thursdays, so. December 1st is a Thursday. It's gonna be a good month. It's gonna be good. Yeah, yeah. Yep. That's great. So- Where do you guys go from here? 'Cause it seems like right now you've got this, like, demand that exceeds supply.

[00:16:09] Yeah. Right? Like, at some point I imagine the goal is to hopefully have to go generate some net new demand out in the world. Right. Like, how do you think about the next few years for you guys, and where do you think you are in your capacity to go out and exceed that threshold? Yeah. And how will that change this approach?

[00:16:23] Taylor 2: 'Cause it seems like right now a lot of this is email and SMS driven. Yes. Yeah. So what happens as you move beyond that to, like, now having to go find net new customers who don't know who you are yet? How do you think about that change in the coming future for you guys? Right. Yeah, so, like, this is the question that, like, keeps me up at night.

[00:16:37] Brandon 2: Yeah. I mean, this is the big one. You know, and, and understanding a little bit about our company is that, you know... So we're an, we're a 100% American-made knife company. We're on the higher end of the price, price scale. Um, and also too, for the past six years we have sold the hardest knife possible to sell on the market, which is a hunting fixed blade knife.

[00:16:54] Yeah. Smallest TAM, most... And, like, our competitors are $30, $20, free with gift. You know? So, like, we're this premium product when, like, a lot of companies are giving the knife away when you buy a magazine. Yeah. And it's crazy we've done it with that, and we've built a company to this size there. Now that we're getting into the pocket knife, the folding knives, you go look at any of our peers, any of the guys who have been around for 150 years, they sell eight pocket knives to one fixed blade.

[00:17:18] Taylor 2: Yeah. So I, s- so everyone's like, "Hey, like, I think it's time for you guys to start getting into retail or channel expansion." I still think for the next two years we still have a lot of just product expansion- Mm ... TAM expansion. And, like, what we were talking about last night at dinner is like, yeah, there's only 2% of America has a hunting knife- Yeah

[00:17:35] Brandon 2: but 100% of America has a kitchen. So- Oh, all of us. Yeah, yeah ... you know, you know? So, like, so the culinary knives to me, like, if we can understand how to manufacture those at scale and keep the quality, that's the key, is, like, if we can manufacture at scale and keep the same quality- Yeah ... like, that there could be its own business in itself.

[00:17:53] So I wanna squeeze as much as I can out of D2C before we start getting into, like, super omni-channel. 'Cause it seems like there's gotta be some- dialogue all the time about what is the ambition and what timeframe, because it seems like what you guys have right now is a platform that could actually allow you to extend maybe even beyond knives, I bet.

[00:18:12] Yeah, yeah. Like, the brand is strong enough that you used the Yeti example. Yeah. Yeti makes a lot of things now. They do. North Face started in carabiners, and now they make a lot of things. Yeah. Like, how do you guys think about the brand that you're building in terms of does it extend beyond knives in your mind?

[00:18:27] Taylor 2: Is it, like- Right ... where, how, how far does this go and what do you guys want from it? Yeah. And, and, and that's, like, we're, you know, like Josh and I have, have always talked about that, and we're, and we're trying to do a little bit of delayed, like, gratification- Yeah ... 'cause we're feeling that. Yeah. We're like, "Oh, we could probably add this, you know, thing that's like kind of like a Venn diagram right over on the side and stuff like that," and it's like that's the plan.

[00:18:48] Brandon 2: Like, our apparel- Yeah, I was gonna say, how is apparel for you guys? So it's insane. Like, I mean, I'll just, like, give some numbers out. You know, we're, we're, we'll do anywhere between $8 and $10 million of just apparel. Wow. Which is nuts. Right. And I came from- That is- ... apparel industry- ... yeah ... and I'm like, holy shit, like, our- That's a real, that's a real business.

[00:19:02] Yeah ... that's a real business. And so, like I say, like there's, there's some stuff there and, like, that's all been like logo wear. There's been some small cut-and-sew stuff. You know, a lot of hats, a lot of T-shirts, a lot of hoodies. But like we're starting to see that our customers are like, "Hey, we trust how well you make knives.

[00:19:15] Like, what, what if you st- what if you guys did start making technical apparel?" Yeah. "Like, what if you guys made hunting apparel- Yeah ... or adventure- Yeah ... adventure gear and stuff like that?" So we're gonna start slowly getting into that, trying to do that right. The problem is, is like doing that 100% American-made is- It's, it's another challenge

[00:19:32] is, is nearly, it's nearly impossible. Yeah. Um, so, like, our customers are just gonna have to understand, like, we're gonna do our best. Yeah. But, like, we c- this is... They're not gonna be on the same line. So, so that, that's another challenge with us is like our ethos is so American-made, 'cause our knives are literally made in- Yeah

[00:19:46] Montana, that, like, a lot of those accessory items, like- Become limited in capacity. It is. Yeah. Yep, yep. So as a branding guy, I'm curious, do you think about the MKC mark moving forward to Montana Knife and the phrase? Like, how do you think about that being the platform to expand that? So, so that's why, so just this year we, we actually updated our logo- Mm

[00:20:07] for the first time ever in six years. And it's, like, the logo that I, like, scrambled together on, like, I remember being, like, in an airport and I'm setting up the original Shopify and I'm like- Yeah ... just adjusting the kerning and, like, that stuck for six years. And I've, I've always been like, there's things off about it, so we f- we simplified it.

[00:20:23] It used to be, like, MKC Montana Knife Company inside the state. We simplified the state. Now it's just MKC. We actually went and bought mkc.com. No way. So, like, like- Three-letter domain ... dude, trust me, like, as like an e-com, like, marketer- That's wild ... I was like, like, people, like, we- No one in my business understands, like, how rare that is.

[00:20:40] You're like, "Those don't exist." Those don't exist. Yeah. And like, so like, it's been parked, and like, I would DM... I would email this guy, like every six months. Be like, "Hey, man." "Just checking in. Just checking in." 'Cause it was multiple six figures. Yeah. And then, I don't know, I emailed him one time, he must've needed money.

[00:20:54] Got it for like- Ooh, timing. No way ... half of what it was listed. And like, I, you know, I had to tell like my bus- like my CFO, which you met and stuff. Yeah. I was like, "Listen." Trust. Yeah. I was like, "This is a big number, but like extrapolate over the legacy of the brand- Totally ... it's worth having." And then also- That's incredible.

[00:21:07] Taylor 2: Yeah ... and also your email's a lot shorter. He's like, "Email be shorter?" I was like... I'm in, yeah. He's like, "Deal." Montana Knifey. No, no. So- Very simple ... so yeah, so like the MKC I think, like I think every... I think, uh, eventually like more people are starting to understand MKC- Yeah ... more than Montana Knife Company, and that's where I think it's gonna allow us to get into the gear- Yeah

[00:21:25] Brandon 2: or allow us to get into accessories- I agree. Yeah ... and things like that. Yeah. It's really cool, man. Yeah. I, I think there's so much... This i- our industry is such a microwave industry where everything has to happen overnight. Right. And I think that there's a, the lessons of building through the organic, having to create the organic demand, having to move slow in manufacturing.

[00:21:43] Taylor 2: In some ways, those limitations become the kind of thing that allows you to move at the pace to build real meaningful connection and quality and product, and all the things that actually are the foundation for a thing that could last 50, 100 years. And so sometimes those limitations become the superpower in the end.

[00:21:59] Yeah. And so I see you guys are doing super cool stuff. Appreciate you dropping in. No problem. Any, any, uh, anywhere... So Instagram, is that the best place to follow you? Yeah, yeah. In- Instagram, just my name, Brandon Haraho. Um, also too, like just the Montana Knife Company Instagram, uh- MKC.com? Y- yeah. No. Yeah, MKC.com.

[00:22:15] Brandon 2: There you go. Like it's crazy. I, I'm still not even used to saying that- I know ... because it's so new. Um, but yeah, those, those there, like you- you'll find us and stuff like that. So, and, and it's cool 'cause if you watch us on YouTube, we're extremely transparent about our brand. Like you can, like, and we actually put out a vlog every single week for the past couple years.

[00:22:31] You can watch us building this from the beginning to the end, and it's, it's a really cool evolution. You know what I just realized too? I think that I actually have one of your guys' knives that was a part of... Did you do a collaboration with Born Primitive? We did. Dude, I have- Yes ... so Bear sent me- Yeah ... so we've worked with Born Primitive forever.

[00:22:49] Taylor 2: Bear's my dude. And they're like, uh... It was like the Veterans Day launch or one of the things they did. Yep. And I'm just... I was scrolling and I was like, "Dude, I actually have one of these that I got." So that's so rad. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't... So yeah, Bear's awesome. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me that you guys are kindred spirits, so- Yeah

[00:23:04] uh, amazing stuff. Go check it out, MKC.com. Mm-hmm. Brandon, thanks for stopping by, man. I appreciate it, man. Appreciate you.